Andreae and Ulbrich
The BDEW general manager and the VW brand board member for electromobility bring the energy and automotive industries together.
(Photo: Nils Bröer for Handelsblatt)
Volkswagen only sees the need for state subsidies for electric cars in the early days. “We are committed to promoting the start phase of the switch to e-mobility. This is necessary in order to implement economically sensible technological changes, ”said Volkswagen Electronics board member Thomas Ulbrich in a conversation with the managing director of the Federal Association of Energy and Water Management (BDEW) Kerstin Andreae the Handelsblatt. There are enough other examples from the past decades for this.
The state is helping with the “initial spark”, later funding is no longer necessary. VW expects subsidies to be reduced in the course of the first generation of new electric cars. Model cycles of seven years are common in the automotive industry.
According to the BDEW boss, the energy companies are familiar with such changes: “The energy industry has already passed this phase.” The concerns were initially enormous here too. “I can remember that some people said that the power supply system only tolerates a share of renewable energies of at most four percent,” said Andreae. Today it is more than 40 percent.
With its new generation of electric cars, Volkswagen wants to help ensure that these vehicles can later be used to store electricity if there is too much excess wind power. The electric cars have to be converted for this and prepared for “bi-directional” charging. “It will be ready in two to three years,” emphasized Ulbrich.
The VW board sees no great chances that the hydrogen drive will prevail in cars for the foreseeable future. “By 2030, the climate and energy balance will not make hydrogen an alternative for future individual mobility. The car of the future will be electric – and therefore cleaner and safer, ”said Ulbrich. Hydrogen will likely be reserved for heavy goods vehicles, ships and aircraft.
Read the entire interview here:
It is not a standard visit for Thomas Ulbrich. He has three hours VW-Electric board for the trip from Volkswagen-Werk Zwickau used for the headquarters of the Federal Association of Energy and Water Management (BDEW) in downtown Berlin. The first generation of Volkswagen’s new e-car family is produced in Zwickau. In Berlin Ulbrich meets BDEW boss Kerstin Andreae. In their first joint interview, both made a clear commitment to the electric car.
Ms. Andreae, Mr. Ulbrich, the automotive and energy industries have not had much in common until now. Andreae: Yes, the two industries will work much more closely together, at least in some areas. Both sectors are equally concerned with the search for climate-friendly solutions. This becomes very clear when it comes to electromobility. The industrialized country Germany faces gigantic transformation tasks that the various industries have to solve. This only works with each other, not against each other.
Ulbrich: The energy transition and the mobility transition are interrelated. And the two key industries in these fields are energy and automotive. We therefore need to create a common framework to address the necessary changes. In the past twelve to 18 months we have made considerable progress on this path. In the National Platform for the Future of Mobility, which the Transport Minister initiated, we have already developed a number of solutions together. Much of this can now be found in the federal government’s climate protection program.
Mr. Ulbrich, hundreds of thousands of specimens from the ID.3 hope vehicle will soon be on the streets. That sounds a bit unreal, doesn’t it? Ulbrich: We have to stop doubting, we have to act. Volkswagen has that System change to electric mobility initiated, this is the future of the automotive industry. The ID.3 stands for this as a key product, it is the first vehicle in a completely new model series from the Volkswagen Group. We will be launching the ID.3 in the summer of this year, so the starting signal has already been given.
Many people still seem to have great doubts. Andreae: I can understand that. The energy industry has already passed this phase. The concerns were enormous at first. A few years ago there were great doubts about the energy transition. I can remember that some people said that the electricity supply system only tolerated a share of renewable energies of at most four percent. Today it is more than 40 percent. This remarkable market ramp-up was brought about by intelligent supply and demand management. We have shown that an entire industrial sector can manage the shift towards renewable energies.
Mr. Ulbrich, it took the energy industry 20 years to achieve a 40 percent share of renewables in electricity generation. Will VW need just as long for electric cars? Ulbrich: The change to electric mobility will have to go much faster. We committed ourselves to the goal of climate neutrality by 2050 a year and a half ago. The first milestone on the way there is the year 2030. By then, ie in ten years’ time, 40 percent of our group-wide sales volume will consist of electric cars. This is the only way to achieve the EU requirement to reduce CO2 emissions by 37.5 percent. We have now planned this out for our plants and started to implement it.
Your ambitious goals stand and fall with the expansion of the charging infrastructure, Where do we stand? Ulbrich: I can definitely understand that many customers still ask themselves today whether they can charge an electric car at any time. We absolutely have to provide answers here. And that is why the consistent expansion of the charging infrastructure is of the utmost importance. But a lot is happening here. In 2019 alone, the public charging infrastructure in Germany was expanded by 50 percent to 24,000 charging points.
Andreae: 80 percent of these are operated by our companies. With the existing charging points, well over 400,000 electric vehicles could be charged regularly. Around 210,000 electric cars are currently registered in Germany. So there are twice as many charging points available as required. And we keep going: Our industry wants to set up 4,000 fast-charging points this year alone.
Ulbrich: A right step. Our industries have discovered a lot in common on this topic in recent months.
Vita Andreae and Ulbrich
Nevertheless, the opinions of your industries differ on how many public charging points are necessary. The energy industry thinks 350,000 is enough, but that is not enough for the car side. Ulbrich: Whether it has to be 350,000 quick charging stations or a million charging points with different charging capacities, we still have to clarify.
Andreae: Yes, it is indeed still open between the two industries.
Ulbrich: In my view, clarifying this is already the second step. It would be more important to me that we start as quickly as possible in the first step and put 150,000 or 200,000 public charging points on the streets in a short time. Because only then will it become apparent to the customer that something is happening. Then he gains confidence in the charging infrastructure in his area.
Can you make money with charging stations? Andreae: No, at the moment this is a losing business for our industry. Our companies do this because they are convinced that ramp-up will come and that the charging stations will pay off at some point. That is our advance payment. It only becomes economically interesting with a certain load factor, from which we are still a long way away. The expansion of the public charging infrastructure must be carried out as required and, in the long term, enable economic operation.
Mr. Ulbrich, what contribution can your industry make to expanding the charging infrastructure? Ulbrich: Fair point. Of course, our industry also has to take care of expanding the charging infrastructure. As Volkswagen, we are already doing a lot. In particular, we want to promote charging at work. We are massively expanding the charging infrastructure for our employees at our locations and will install over 4,000 charging points at the German plants by 2025. In Europe as a whole, we will set up 36,000 additional charging points across the Group, including trade.
Stable power grids, which are paid for by all electricity customers, are a prerequisite for the expansion of the charging infrastructure. Andreae: The networks are currently fit, they could charge up to 13 million electric vehicles today. This corresponds to 30 percent of the German car fleet. There is currently no major investment requirement that would arise solely from the construction of the charging infrastructure for electric cars. But of course we have to keep that in mind. The power grid infrastructure is the backbone of the entire energy transition.
In the end, the decisive factor is which current flows through the networks to the charging point. Coal electricity does not advance e-mobility. What to do? Andreae: The slow expansion of renewables is the biggest problem at the moment. The federal government must act quickly here and put the brakes on. To do this, it must fundamentally revise the planned distance rule for onshore wind power, increase the expansion targets for offshore wind power and completely remove the cover for the expansion of photovoltaics. Otherwise, the goal of increasing the share of renewables in electricity generation to 65 percent by 2030 cannot be achieved. And that would also be a problem for electromobility.
We are talking about the charging infrastructure for electric cars. The question is how many other infrastructures can be handled. Do we also need more hydrogen and natural gas filling stations? Andreae: For private private transport, the electric car is the right means, the gas mobility option still exists. However, we cannot build another new infrastructure with comparable coverage. Hydrogen becomes relevant in heavy goods traffic or for ships, of course also for industry. Although I am fundamentally open to technology. But we are now at the point where we should choose infrastructure. And I believe that in Individual transport is the charging network for electric cars,
Ulbrich: We share this rating. And at Volkswagen we have already made the decision. Until 2030, the climate and energy balance does not make hydrogen an alternative for future individual mobility. The car of the future will be electric – and therefore cleaner and safer. And remains just as practical and suitable for everyday use.
As a VW manager, is it really fun to produce cars that can only be sold with high subsidies? Ulbrich: Volkswagen has never said that sustainable subsidies for electric cars are necessary. We are committed to promoting the start phase of the switch to e-mobility. This is necessary in order to implement technologically meaningful technological changes. There are enough other examples from the past decades for this. In the start-up phase, incentives provide the necessary “initial spark”. Such support will no longer be necessary later, the technology will speak for itself.
And that will take ten years? Ulbrich: It will happen in the course of the first product generation. In the automotive industry, we calculate a model life cycle of seven years. But the respective legislation also plays a major role. Individual EU countries could set different times for the exit from the combustion engine.
In the future, electric cars will be used as energy storage if there is too much excess wind power. Ulbrich: To do this, there must be a correspondingly large number of electric vehicles that are on the road. With the so-called “bi-directional” charging, we could create a buffer capacity with the cars that feeds the electricity back into the grids if necessary. A higher network stability is achieved.
When can your electric cars charge bi-directionally? Ulbrich: The models in the new ID family generally already provide for this technically, but our ID.3s, which will be launched in the summer of this year, will not be able to do this yet. It will be ready in two to three years. Until then, we should also have a set of rules that clarifies the general use of the electric car as an additional energy store on four wheels.
Ms. Andreae, Mr. Ulbrich, thank you for the interview.
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